I really need advise...

Ok so maybe going to the most hormonal place on the web isn't the best place to go for advise... lol

This may be a bit long, so I apologize in advance....

Ok a bit of background, my DF and I have been together for a little over 3 years. I found out about 4 months ago that he has been suffering from a sexual addiction. He does not do anything physical, he calls chat lines and has "adult" conversation with happy endings. Unfortunately, I found this out by snooping. He is very outgoing/flirty and I just a suspision that there was *something* going on.

I confronted him about this, he was angry I snooped, but once it was out, he was pretty honest (sometimes too honest). I have come to terms that this started WAY before me and has very little if nothing at all to do with me.

Also unfortunatly, this has caused me to have major trust issues surface. The kind that are almost obsessive, (ie. How do I know you were really busy at work and that is why you were late, or did you not answer my call because you were on the other line) I mentally know that he will not ever physically step out on me or cheat on me or anything at all to that effect.

During about the first week or two of this being "out", he ran into a girl he kinda sorta dated/was more friends with than anything who happened to work right next door to him. He wound up confiding in her about our relationship, they are VERY alike personality wise, and pretty much were insta-bffs.

I told him this bothered me, (I didn't know at the time that he was using her as a sounding board etc) and his response is literally that I just have to get over it. He doesn't have a lot of friends, but he does make it a point to still talk to her daily. His other best friend often has his phone off, but it bothers me that they talk daily. Now I can't tell if it is because of how I came to know of her, or the timing or both.

So yesterday (I had asked to meet her several times, was never told no, was often told she wanted to meet me too, but it just hadn't happened yet) we are doing errands and he pulls into her work. So here I am, getting what I want, but caught totally off guard. So we walk in, and it is instantly awkard. Her mom was there I talked to her for all of a minute and she left. So within like 3 min its just the 3 of us. (I literally feel for some reason that I am going to meet her and think, god you're perfect for him) So its fairly silent and he looks at me and has the NERVE to say, there you met are you happy?. I am very very very teary with this preg, and I can feel it coming on, so I have a choice, either stand there and cry, or walk out. So this girl says, no she's not happy (kinda haha) and I walk out. He gets in our van and says well I don't know what happened but she said it was nice to meet you and she's sorry for whatever she did. Now I am ticked off and feeling bad. I looked at him and told him thanks for making me feel like a giant a**. I asked him for her number and txt her that it wasn't her, that he made me fell like a giant a**. She offers to meet again without him, pretty much a real interest in building some sort of friendship.

So I've txt her a bit today, and she seems nice, and tells me that she understands how I feel and I can talk to her if I need to. All I want to do is quiz her. I want to ask her the million questions about the content of conversations, how often they really do talk/see each other. All of my insecurities about "them" that I can't seem to shake.

So how on earth do I become at least kinda sorta friends with her? How do I put my mind at ease? How do I not go crazy?

I am going through the same thing...don't know if you remember but I posted about this on the other board in June. I caught DH having cybersex with some chick from the UK - I found 26 pages of it on his poker game inbox/outbox when he left it open one day. Then I looked at web history and found porn sites. I have since installed a file/website tracker on his computer that he doesn't know about so I can "monitor" his activity and I also changed all his passwords - especially the poker game one.

I found out today he is still going to porn websites and also some chicks on myspace are sending him messages.

I cannot monitor his activity from his work computer...and I know he must do "unapproved" things on there.

We are currently not really speaking because he has stopped doing anything to help me with our toddler or this pregnancy. Honestly I am avoiding confrontation because I know I will get so upset and cause me to have a panic attack - which I do not want or need.

I wish I had advice for you, but since I am going through the same thing...will he go to counseling? I am going to get us into it once this baby is out.

Heather

sanderson have you read up on sex addiction at all? There is a whole lot of reading about it online. My husband used to be heavy into the porn and luckily it was just looking at videos and stuff and now he has gotten away from it. But I read alot about it and it helped me with how to approach it and how to deal with it and help him. Also you might look at alanon web site information. Alanon is for familiy and friends of the alcoholic but sex addiction is an addiction and the stuff applies. Both of you really look at that stuff it helped me. Also know that it has absolutely nothing to do with you adn how you lok preggo or before. It is completely his issue and there is not a darn thing wrong with you. I spent a year thinking if I was skinnier he woulnd't want to look at the porn to the point i actually was bulemic for a little bit and then a friend told me to look at the stuff on addiction. anyways good luck girls and know you are among friends here so talk, vent whatever anytime!

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He has a complicated back ground. He was molested by his sister (whom was molested by their father) when he was 5 and she was almost 7. The two of them went on to molest the 2 youngest siblings. I know this went on for a couple of years, I am not sure what age he was when it stopped with him, but I know his younges sis and bro actually had a child together when she was 13. He also was in and out of group homes from age 4-16. His father had been molested and it literally goes back generations.

He says that he uses (and has used) these lines for a "healthy release" for almost 20 years now. He is 29 and has been calling since he was about 13. He says he thinks that his urges are simular to what his dad must have had (NOT the children part of it AT all) and he says he can stop but he wouldn't want it to escalate (he is a very visual person, all I can think of is turning into peeping or something worse) and he is scared that is what would happen. He says he is scared of learning the cause of the urges.

All in all, at this point, I have "some" issues with the chat line, but overall it seems like it brought out other issues. He says he will go to counseling, but I am hesitant because I don't want to force him into a change that he is not ready to handle. At the very least, I would like to go simply to learn how to better communicate and understand each other. I know that I can only control how I react, and right now that isn't going so well for me. lol

He doesn't meet these women, he doesn't talk to them more than once, he doesn't exchange photos, he doesn't meet them, absolutely nothing physical.

I was extremely hurt that he confided in Amanda, especially about something so personal. He told her feelings that I didn't even know he was having. The icing on the cake (and this is the sometimes too honest part) was him telling me that she thought back in the day that things between them never went the way they should have. Meaning, she wished they would have had the relationship (she was 17 at the time, he was 23-24) and he told me that she was kinda his "I wonder what would have happened..." Granted I realize that we all have those, but to know that they are each others, and that they talk everyday and that she knows a TON about him because of this and will still talk to him daily, that is what my mind can't let go of.

I logically know that there isn't anything going on with them. I would very much like to know if they have had any form of sexual conversations though. He says no, but I think it has been skirted probably.

She wants to be at least friendly with me, I think its because she knows she is unintentionally causing a problem, and I respect that. I would like to be able to be half way decent friends with her as well. I don't know how to make the (are you txting her now, all day, when im not around, what do you talk about) obsessive thoughts stop. And I really don't know how. I know that I am amplifying any problems that we have by my inability to control some of these emotions, and I think this is something that we will work through. I would like to get to a point, that I can hear him say, oh amanda is doing/going whatever, and literally not care what so ever.

I looked into the sex addiction stuff, and it was really helpful, I would like to get a book on it though because I only have the web at work

Honestly I suggest counseling for the both of you...has he ever gotten help for his issues...and not just the addicition ones. Now the relationship with his friend, it is a good thing, but trying like hell not to feed into your paranoia but I have been with an ex that cheated on me and his "friend" wanted to be my friend as she realized it would help me lower my guard and basically give her more access to my boyfriend. But he cheated on everyone so he really isn't a good example...and I tend to think her reasonings for wanting to make you feel comfortable are legit...I just think there are way to many underlying things with his background that a professional would be your best bet for help with your feelings and his.

I sorry I don't know much about sex addiction and I can only imagine how it feels. I would recommend some alanon type of information as well. It's really helpful to hear how others in the same position handled the situation. I know how helpful it can be because I come from an alcoholic family and am living with an active alcoholic and passive agressive.

I too have those obsessive type thoughts.. it's so hard to break that. It does happen for some people though. Through love and detachment. I personally am not good at detaching because I tend to completely withdraw. It seems like counsling would be a good start. However like you said, it won't do any good unless he's really ready to go.

I wish I had some better words of wisdom. I wish you and Heather both the best with getting through this tough time. Please feel free to vent or seek advice here anytime.. I'm sure I will!

understandable with th eweb at work girl. You can find all sorts of "safe" stuff on alcoholism it is the same steps or programs it si all addiction just some of the details might be different but the process is overall the same if that helps any. I have a friend who actualy was seperated from her husband for almost a year because of this but she won't talk about the details of it. I do know that our church has recovery groups for her and a group for him to go to. I wil see if I can broach teh subject with her see if I can get any references or anything. She is very private so not sure but she is livingt it with him, they just had a baby and he has been at home now for 2 months so that shows you there is a way. But a professionsal would probably help him alot. Becasue it isn't the sex that drives sex addicts or the orgasm there is more to it. Just make sure to take care fo yourself girl.

we had a tough night. On wednesday, right after I had talked to Amanda (this friend) I guess they were talking. I had called him and he sounded pretty ticked off so I was like what's wrong, hes all god why does everyone keep saying that? I was like well you sound pretty ticked. Anyways, I guess she had told him that he sounded mad too. She asked him if he cared that her and I were talking and he said no. I think he may to a degree because if she is being as genuin as I believe she is, then naturally girls tend to have each others backs, especially since they don't have a history that basically obligates her to have his. She ended up telling him that he was an a** hole and she wasn't going to talk him. (I don't know where that came from, he says he doesn't either - I didn't push it). He ended up saying something along the lines of, yeah how long is that going to last (her bf had a problem with them talking a few months ago, she stopped talking to him for all of 3 days) and she told him to f off.
Anyways, our night. We went to the movies, had a good time. I don't remember how it got brought up, but it turned into this deep conversation/argument/conversation about how each of us feel the other has been lying for the past 4 months. I was really honest with him, he said he was at his wits end, I said me too. I was honest with him about some things I hadn't been as honest as I could have been (going through his phone, calling him more often etc) and why I am so insecure about Amanda. He said it was like watching me run in a circle. At this point he has taken himself out of it. That he loves me, but he isn't in love with me anymore.
That killed me. But then I got to thinking that I think I am feeling the same way and hadn't realized it (or admitted it).
So I asked him, if we shared the goal of "wanting to get back in love with each other" he said yes, but right now it was more about the kids and that is pretty much why he hadn't gotten his own place or anything like that.
So we agreed that we would take it one day at a time. I am having a really hard time with the OCD stuff. A really hard time. I don't want to get into the day to day routine and think everything is going well only to find out that yeah, its not workin.

One more thing. I am very much a person that wants to know things like where he is etc. He views this as keeping tabs and says essentially I should be content with knowing I can reach him on his cell phone, but otherwise my asking is keeping tabs.
How do I convey that I am not keeping tabs? And it breaks down to (1) a common courtesy, I should know where he is and vice versa (2) just something that is done in relationships.
Am I wrong to wonder if he is leaving an hour early for work (he did once and it was to see his dad) and all he says is oh I have things to do, is it not a natural follow up to go, oh what things?

Gosh, the tabs thing is soo tough. I go through it too. I haven't figured out a great solution yet. I wish I could tell you one. I did quit trying to go through his phone and things and that has made it somewhat better. But I still get pissed because he's gone all the time. I feel like he lies constantly. And if he will lie about little stuff is he lying about more? Plus like you said I think it is a common courtesy thing in a relationship. I tell him where I'm at 24/7. Of course I have nothing to lie about.. I've tried to explain to him why it bothers me, but he just doesn't seem to get it. I'm like.. for example. When you tell me your going to the gas station to get a beer or whatever and it takes you an 1 hour and a half.. THAT'S A LIE! It doesn't take anyone that long to go down the street. Well I stoped at my buddies.. ok, well tell me that. Is it such a big deal? He also says the same thing about "I have things to do" only it's I'm making money, or I'm doing business.. Right! More like spending money talking about business ideals and fanasys that won't go anywhere unless you stop spending all your time & money in the bar "talking" about business.

It does seem like at least this girl is being truthful with you. (From a completely outsiders perspective) And if she has a BF well it might be causing problems for her relationship too. It would still be frustrating to me though. The things like him being mad over being asked what's wrong. It's that what people who care about you ask? And not to seem out of place or hurtful, but maybe if he wasn't sharing emotions with another person it wouldn't bother him that you were asking, because then he wouldn't be repeating himself.

I'm also in the same situation of not being in love anymore. It really sucks. I want to make it work, but I don't know where to start. I don't have any motivation to be all nice and put my feelings side to try to build it back. He seems to be trying.. occasionally.. but he goes about it in the completely wrong way. But if I try to tell him what I'm really wanting and needing out of a relationship he just gets all huffy and says.. Fine.. I'm just your F*CKING puppet.. RARR

I've been doing some Alanon work for myself and my codependent behaviors. Have you ever read anything about codependacy? It actually helps. You can see why checking up and constantly worrying about the other person is unhealthy and tells you different ways you can go about trying to help yourself. The only thing is for me.. it's really showing me that I just need to get out of my unhealthy relationship. I knew it before but it's kind of hard to see in black and white. It seems to me that the only way you guys will really get a good jump and falling back in love is if you eliminate the other people from your relationship. Sounding boards aren't going to help at this point. You need to turn to each other with all your feelings and problems if your going to get to the root of it. Just my opinon.. I could be wrong.

I had all of 3 hours of sleep las night, and the last I remember is sobbing into his pillow then thinking I shouldn't do that, I think I probably fell asleep in a border line panic attack.
I wish I had a sounding board (this is great but someone to talk to face to face would be better ) and I told him last night that it felt like he was keeping her on his back burner. I told him that they have this chemistry that I am jealous of, the personalities that mesh, the whole 9 yards. He compared her to his best guy friend, and I'm like yeah but Mikey isn't cute lol. Its really crappy feeling so threatened but logically knowing that nothing will happen. He pointed out that they probably wouldn't have meshed well as a couple because she is very materialistic, but I felt like SCREAMING at him that the base chemistry is still there, and it was/is there enough that they talked about it in the begining. It was more of a reminissing not a wow I wonder what... I told him that if things with us didn't/don't work that it is really crappy to know whom he would seek out. I also told him that I although I understand the wanting to run things by someone first, that I would really appreciate it if he could come to me directly. If he is looking/thinking about his own apartment, then by god tell me that so I am not sitting here thinking things are half way decent when in fact they are the total opposite.
He said in the same sentence last night that he wasn't sure if he would ever be able to "be in love" with me again but that was the ultimate goal. Why would it be a goal if you weren't sure? I mean, I'm sure if things continue to go the way they have then we are just going to drive each other away and it will end because of that. But if you were't sure, sure that there was at least a good enough chance to work through things and get back to how it was, you wouldn't even try right?
I have been looking into a lot of anxiety stuff. I think if I can get that at least a bit under conrtoll it is going to help.
Do I tell him all these things I am scared of thinking things are fine and being blindsided? Do I tell him that it kills me to hesitate and wonder if I should ask if its ok to hug him, tell him I love, if its ok to miss him? That I am scared if we stop saying I love you's that we will stop feeling it at all?Or does this make me too vulnerable and make it overwellming to him?

I am so sorry this is so long but I had a lot to say..
I am so sorry that you have to go thru this. But maybe I can help you a little bit. Here is a little back history on me so you know I am not talking out my butt. I went to college for psychology. I ran groups and therapy in group homes and hospitals for children and adolescents and sometimes adults. Most of these people were court ordered. My schooling has been pretty extensive.
The sexual addiction has NOTHING to do with you. You could be Pamela Anderson it is would still be happening. My 1st question would be has he had any type of counseling. I will guess probably not and if he did it never got to the root of the issue. You are completely right this will date back to what happened to him as a child. When this happens to you as a child you don’t understand it is wrong and you also don’t understand what it is. When he did it he didn’t understand that it was wrong he did it to have the “power” that was taken away from him. Ok that is the past. But for him to get on with the future he has to face the past head on. My 2nd question is a little personal. But does it interfere with your’s and his sex life? I know it sounds like a silly question. I totally understand that it hurts your feelings for him to be doing this with other woman. I totally get that. But if it makes you feel better ALL men look at porn. The women who say theirs doesn’t is lying to themselves. The day of the internet made it so easy to access this stuff. Also the concept of the computer watcher is great but ladies those of you that have it and your men know anything about computers can go around it just by putting a different type of browser on the computer and you would never know. But that is something completely different. Back to the problem. My advice to you is sitting down and talk with him. Ask him if YOU can be the woman on the computer. I know it sounds silly ask him about his fantasy’s ask him about his dreams. I know sometimes don’t ask don’t tell works the best but try to get into what he is wanting. And become that other woman. It might be a better way to connect.
Also as for the friend. Think about this. How many guy friends do you have? I know I personally have a lot more guy friends than I do girls. We all need that bff of the opposite sex. They are a great sounding board. I wouldn’t press her to much. Because she is his friend and most likely she will go back and tell him and that might make things worse.
I hope this helps I am sorry if I stepped over my limit and said things I shouldn’t and I hope this came out right it is always hard to explain this type of thing on paper rather than in person…
Andrea

ok i feel like a butt. now that i finished reading the last few entries. i felt so compelled to write what was in my head i didn't take the time to finish reading. anyways. it sounds like so many things are going on all at one time. life is pretty scary like that. how long have you guys been together. every relationship has its ups and down. this could just be a bump in the road. do you still love him even after you have heard this stuff. are you willing to fight for it. if the answer is yes then pull out all the stops. and love him even more. but keep an eye on yourself. don't hurt yourself more in the process.

I also have background in psychology and know about codependency, however, it doesn't matter how much I know - it is whether he is willing to change or whether any man/husband is willing to change and do the hard work. I can't force him to do anything. This morning I was doubled over in pain from a pinched nerve, contractions all night, and being soo sore while trying to get our toddler out the door. Did he offer to help while I was literally in tears? No.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I can barely walk. Today I was so exhausted I laid on the floor of my classroom and actually fell asleep during my lunch. I can't afford to take any days off I have to save them for when my babies are sick.

I know the best thing to do is talk to my husband, but I know that I cannot handle any confrontation right now. I start crying when anyone asks me what is wrong. So I just pull on my big girl panties, suck it up and make sure my son is okay- he is what keeps me going right now.

Sigh,
Heather

I don't do confrontation well either. I get emotional pretty easy. Then I'm just told I'm weak.. yadda yadda.. so it's like I don't even want to talk about it. Plus it just feels like a waste of breath. He doesn't listen anyway.

I'm sorry you in so much pain right now. I hope things will get better swiftly after the baby comes. I do agree with you on about the part of him changing. Even though I know I'm Co-D I think the only real problem with it is that I let his emotions control my feelings. So it's not really the same as some other forms.. maybe that doesn't make any sense.. I don't know.

It just sucks that so many of us are in positions where we are not being treated the way we deserve to be yet we should be experienceing such joy waiting for our little ones to get here.

No bounds were overstepped at all, in fact, I am not sure how PC I have to be on here

No our sex life isn't effected at all by it, it became effected afterwards though, simply I think because of the stress factor. Before we were a "daily" couple, then with all the stress it seems to be more like a couple times a week. The largest change right now is that I am (so sorry for the overshare) um pleasing him orally ( ) more often ....granted I get mine, we have a unique (probably not all that unique) position that allows me mine too (not orally though) so it isn't one sided. Hell Friday night he's all Truth or Dare (lame I know, but I guess that's his "game" lol) do you feel frisky. So he isn't stressed or walled up enough not to be interested in me.

We had a good weekend. I have really been watching my need/want whatever to hear his voice. I have tried my best to be more relaxed. So far I think so good. Hopefully.

The kissing isn't the same. I was thinking that yesterday. I want the intimate close kissing, not the kind that you can tell the other is kind of ticked off. I told him yesterday before he went to work, "ok love you have a good night" hes all you too. Then I stopped him as he was walking out the door and asked (feeling like I was 5) simply if he thought it would take long, he made eye contact and said he wasn't sure. I closed the door and cried a little, but all in all I have to respect him for being honest about it.

That is the hardest for me. I will fight for this more than I have anything in my life. I am very much a person that if our relationship doesn't work out and you pull away (being friends/family) then I pretty much give you the finger and say you aren't worth my time/effort. I have never the need to fight and I am praying that I am not too late. I wrote him this letter that breaks down (pretty clearly I think) a lot of what I have wanted to say but for some reason couldn't find the words at the time. I want to give it to him but I'm not sure if I should. I wrote it when I felt drained and cleared, and I think it expresses the denial I was having about my part in things, and I think it shows that I see that now and can take responsibility for it. But I don't want it to seem like I am rehashing or begging for forgiveness etc.

As for the sex addiction. I know that it has absolutely 0 to do with me. That was tough to "get" the first couple weeks. What was/is the hardest for me is to differentiate that he is using these girls, no matter if he is nice to them or not and ultimately all emotional/physical connection etc still belongs to me.

Thank you all for letting me use your shoulders. This is obviously a very private subject, and I hope I can continue to vent/post progress Love you ladies!!

Ok, how do I stop this...I talked to Amanda ( ) I am really trying to be a nice person. And I am trying not to convey that I am happy she called him an a** hole for whatever reason and said she wasn't talking to him. Even though I am and I know that is kind of evil of me.
Anyways, I jokenly asked her if she was still not talking to him last night and she's all yup. So I'm put at ease by this for some reason. Again the evil kind of reason that I shouldn't have lol
He asked me about 2 minutes ago if I had heard from her at all (she just got back from Cali) and I said I talked to her for like 2 min was all. He said that he is going to call her at work so she has to answer the phone and talk to him. I laughed and was like don't you think that should be her decision? Then he asked if I said I wasn't going to talk to him if I would want him to just let it drop. I told him it wasn't the same because we are in a relationship, he's all so are me and Amanda, its just a friendship one. I laughed and told him he was crazy (while grinding my teeth lol)
So how do I stop the implicating comments? How do I stop wondering if he has talked to her?

[quote]

Normally I wouldn't either. His best friend also knows her well, and I know that he would never let anything "happening between them" be hidden from me. I know that although there is chemistry, 99% of my insecurity is simply that.

Now I sound like I am defending him. How very Co-D of me ( I have been told)

My DF is a very rare guy. His kids are his #1 priority to him, and he is not just generally an a** by nature. He is incredibly compassionate, caring and in general a great person. He would not ever get involved with someone else while still in our relationship, he is very respectful of that. I know that probably sounds hipacritical, but it is true.

My issue right now is being able to decipher between the logical etc and what my mind is flipping out about. The OCD stuff is my thing, unfortunately it is a family issue on my Mom's side and I never thought I had any of it, apparently I have never been this type of stressed before.

I am trying to get to know her, she keeps telling me if there is anything I want to ask, like how much she knows etc to just ask her. I appreciate that, I know she is being sincere. My understanding of "their" friendship is that he goes to her with a lot about us, she seems (from her responses to me, and what he has said she told him) to very much be like I will give my base opinion, but you need to talk to each other. She is very supportive with that. Anyways, I am hoping that I can become friends enough with her to be able to tell her that I don't want her to be in the position of the go to person if I am not available, go to for anything, exciting news, etc. He should be going to his best guy friend I think. She could be a 3rd or 4th but not a close 2nd if that makes any sense.

I guess I want to let it be known that I think she has let herself (not intentionally from what I can tell) kind of step on my toes a bit. I think it would be GREAT if she made herself a bit less available, she works in a tanning salon, in TUCSON AZ, lord knows she isn't busy! lol Maybe if she could understand that as a female, she would not want someone like her for her BF to be going to. I don't really know anyone who would. No woman with any level of standard/class would ever make themselves the "other woman" ntentionally, and I think (at least all of us here) are woman enough to be able to respect if we were making another woman feel like that. I really don't think that she is a horrible person. I do think that she is young enough not to fully realize that she is a big part of our issues.

I'm going to put a banner on my phone that says "breathe shay, oh and don't call lol"

Lol

I actually talked to her for almost an hour yesterday. Like I said, the crappy thing, she is very likable, easy to talk to etc. Also, total personality like my DF

Anyways she kept saying, there is so much he hasn't told you, she must have said it 10 times. She did tell me a couple things I didn't know. Nothing incredibly major (depending on how you look at it), I guess a night he was supposed to be at poker, he was at her second job (waitress) hanging out with her until they closed, then they went to walmart. He never told me about that, it was right around 3 months ago, at the time we were not talking just screaming at each other <> second she said he told her that he was going to take her away from her BF. < >
So I ask him about it, and we actually had a conversation. No defensiveness, nothing. He didn't deny anything, he did say that he didn't remember saying that, if he did it wouldn't have been worded that way because he has no desire to take her from her man.
So I am thinking this was during the first few weeks of them talking, when he told me during that time, that they did flirt etc. That wasn't something he hid, not that he was blatent about it, just that he said she was very optimistic, outgoing, flirty etc. I pretty much assumed they flirted, whether innocent or not I didn't know.
He said she views things very black and white, and when he says he doesn't love me, he doesn't literally mean it, but he means it is empty in this very moment in the middle of what is happening. I feel the same way.
Anyways, I am wondering what way she has interpeted a lot of things, and although I *think* I like her as a person, something is telling me to be very weary. Not because she is after him or would welcome anything, but because I think she will go back to him and be like, oh shay said.....and then come to me and be like oh Michael said..... . Just basically start additional drama whether intended or not. She kept telling me that I can ask her anything and she will tell me, almost like she wanted me to quiz her. I had to tell her that what he said to her in confidence was just that. ((((feeling old, I guess that is my almost 30 yo. wisdom vs. 20 yo wisdom lol)))
Again, appreciate the vent opportunity. All in all, we are in the same place, on the same page and it really sucks. I have high hopes, but don't want to get too hopeful I guess.

hmm.. seems like it's getting more and more tangled. Not really room for more than two in a relationship. I'm not quite sure how to put it, but something just doesn't seem right. I understand your need/want to know what's going on, but the whole thing seems unhealthy. How are you two (yourself and DH) supposed to make things better if you both have someone your running too? Even if it's the same person. Seems like she just needs to step out of the equation for a little while.

Oh I have no plans on going to her. My original wanting to meet her was simply that. I think I have a right to know his friends, plus it bugged me that he had so much contact with her and I hadn't met her. According to her she wanted to meet me too.

I didn't divuldge (sp? lol) anything to her. She kept offering that if I wanted to know anything just ask. I didn't ask her anything. We talked about DF and I but not anything that she didn't already know . I have zero intention on using her as a confidant, simply because I don't think anything I said would be kept in confidence, I think she would at the very least *hint* to things if/when she talked to him.

DF is a tricky guy sometimes. If anyone knew him on here, they would know that he isn't feeding me one story while telling her another. That he isn't being physical with anyone, or planning it or whatever.

Our biggest issue seems to be his need for extreme privacy vs. my need to know. Plus, he admitted to me that besides this being his only ltr ever that has never had a break etc, this is also his only relationship that he hasn't bailed or given up on because of a problem. So he's never even dealt with problems before. Unfortunately, I've never dealt with anything even close to this, so we are both going at it blind.

Like I said, I am weary of her. I can't tell if she is trying to be overly helpful, or the bad kind of "helpful". I don't think its the bad kind, but I do know she is hiding that she talks to DF from her BF. SO what kind of person does that actually make her? One that is deceitful and not "in" her relationship like she says? Or one who is caring towards her friend and genuinly doesn't want to see his relationship ruined because he is acting stupid? Its a tough call at this point