I really need advise...

Wednesday night...we are playing cards (I HATE but he loves so whatever) and one of his closing managers calls him (she's 18 and according to everyone I talk to that works with her she already has quite a reputation if you kwim) anyway, she calls to update him on the store (no big deal) and he literally starts speaking like he is 18! He's saying things like, oh yeah and then we like need to check...! It was so funny. After he hung up, I looked at him, and I was all, "So is your store, like totally, in control and having like an awesome night?" I was completely playing around, and he looked at me and asked what I meant by that. I told him he started talking like he was 18, saying like alot. He asked again what I was implying (is he really so insecure about what he has or hasn't done that he thinks everything I say is an implication?) I told him I wasn't implying anything. He said it seems like every comment I make is like a backhanded implication of something. <<< AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF FOR SAYING THIS>> I looked at him (completely fed up) and said look, if you are stupid enough to f around with an 18yo. that is on you. I am tired of wondering what is goind on, so at this point I figure what is done in the dark always comes to the light in one way or another. If you are doing things that you said you wouldn't, then that is something that is on you, not me. It will not be my guilt to live/deal with. Otherwise, I thought it was funny, you talked like a valley girl. And I proceded to play cards
So yesterday (my day off) I was feeling like crap, there is a nasty head/chest cold at work that I guess I caught. So we are sitting in the dentist (3 kids appts, oh so fun) and he has been getting all kinds of txt messages all morning. I am pretty sure that they are all from work people (we are out of minutes on our cells, and lets face it, a 20 yo would rather txt than talk) but he had been angling them away from me. That pisses me off. So I didn't say anything, but he knows this pisses me off, and he has a 12 year old persona sometimes that will do things simply to piss people off because he can. So we get in the car and my eldest daughter says I look like Im mad. I tell her I'm not mad, and he is like yes you are don't lie. So I'm like, ok, fine, I'll say this in front of the kids. I looked at him and said, you know, when you angle your phone away from me on purpose, that completly indicates that you are doing something that you shouldn't be. It makes me suspicious, so later on, or tomorrow or whenever I ask whom is on your phone, or whom is txting you, you have 0 right to tell me I'm being nosey. I will not continue to feel like a door mat, like I am your "physical" SO or whatever the hell my lable is at the f*ing moment. Granted, I am insecure, but you need to realize that when you do things like that it fuels my insecurities. Then we drove to Target in silence. lol
I ordered the book of the guy I posted from, and we talked about it, Michael said he sounds like a quake (all drs are according to him) I asked if he would read it because I ordered 2 copies. He said he wasn't sure, so I told him, Ok, I am asking you TO read it, not IF you will. I think you owe us that much, it is under 300 pages, I think you can handle that.
Oddly enough, he seems to be more receptive to me being pissy than when I feel all raw and emotional. So I am feeling a little more over the "crying all the time" phase, so we'll see how this works I should have the books tomorrow or Monday.

Good for you!!! Set your boundries girl!!! ya know sometimes you have to be direct just be sure to be direct tastefully and not over do it until it loses it's effectivness. You go girl!

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lol. The only part that I am doubting, is that he has had such 0 "guilt" or whatever you want to call it. For all I know he is doing all these things that I want stopped and having it "not be on him" simply because his view is unless it is physical (which he would never do) then it shouldn't be a problem.

SOOOOO.... with that, I am hoping to effectivly be able to say look, this this and this is not ok with me, and hope that he can at the very least compromise with me, then hopefully if he screws up there will be a guilt level since it is something he gave his word on. The problem with that, is I know without a doubt he will see it as me rehasing and not being able to "get over" things we have talked about a million and 5 times.

Maybe I will get *lucky* (if you could call it that) and he won't read the book and I can tell him (he already knows I am really into this book) that part of the exercises in it aren't dealing directly with the "problems" but expressing the "what bothers me is" and being able to move on that way, maybe I can get him to play along with that. If I keep it simple (he already knows this book is about moving on, not trying to deal with past issues) and have it be "effective communication" maybe I can help him reach a point where we may not agree, but can find compromises?

I am just so damn warn out and tired of stressing out this baby. I told him once I wished I was deaf/dumb/blind and desperate that way things could be "normal". I don't want to "reconnect" and have him having all these "mini flings" or whatever the hell it would be called behind my back. Granted, I don't want to know when he has his "urge" but I also don't want him to think that because I'm not all over him, that it is ok if they call him or to be "single" for whatever. ARGHH!! Having kids and standards is so difficult sometimes!!!

What do you guys do with your SO when they simply want the issue to go away instead of trying to find some common ground? Do any of your SO consider change/compromise not "being true" to onself? And how do you just not slap the crap out of them?

Ahh.. It's mind boggling isn't it. I'm pretty sure you know where I stand already.. LOL In the same place! But yes, my SO will repeatedly say "that's just me" or "That's just how I am" and when he talks about making changes it talks about it like I'm forcing him, and it's not his choice and then he's miserable about it.. it's so lame. And then it all comes flying at me in this condesending tone of voice.. "well I just come home every single night then..(all whiney)" Well, ya.. that would be called having a family. Get it?

Maybe this is NOMB (none of my business) but where does he work? How come there are soooo many young girls around? I'm not saying go find a new job, but it certainly seems like so much of the problems come from his place of business.

I would have totally cracked up at seeing you have a conversation with your 18 yr old Valley Girl Hubby.. LOL

If my husband was acting like that I would ask him what exactly does he want? this isn't hooters this is the real world and not some scantily clad video game. If he doesn't like the fact that he has a family then maybe he should of kept it in his pants this isn't a choice anymore his children will make their opinions about him based on his actions or lack there of. They will learn how to be in relationships by watching their mommy and daddy "this is just how I am" isn't going to cut it when your child is saying well wasn't i important enough to you to do it a little differently? didn't 'i matter to you enough? Aren't I good enough? Is all I am is a problem to you? I mean really their childish/selfish games they are playing with you are going to play out with the children do they want to be good fathers? do they care about being good fathers? Good fathers take care of and protect their families not act liek the family that they helped create is an intrusion on their hooters fantasies. I eman ahve you guys talked abotu what kind of parents these guys want to be? what kind of a parent/man they think they are? Not to mention children question their parents love when they see their parents not loving eachother. I learned all about attachment and how that effects you your whole life and atachment is formed in the first few years of life from birth. They don't feel. secure when there is tension they feel the tension. If not for you their spouses (which should be enough because you should be number 1) what about the children involved here? I am sorry I went off on a rant again you guys jsut deserve to have it better. Thse big kids are just frustrating to me. I mean really be a man because right now they aren't acting like it.

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My DF, Michael is a store manager for Dominos. Hence the young people. He loves food service for the day to day interaction with people (all kinds, not just girls) he has a wierd need to interact with people

He didn't personally hire all the girls (there are 4 or 5 out of like 12 people there - I think) and I know he hired 2. The yougest was hired only because her availability, and she is screwing up quite a bit, actually cost him his bonus last month.

I get the condensending tone too. I hate it, my Dad was like that. "I gotta keep it real" wtfe, honestly are you "gonna keep it real" when you're 45? Gimme a freakin break. I'm not asking him to cut off an arm to make me happy or to dictate his life to me.

I have been feeling really rejected lately too. My libido is all over the place, and to be quite honest, when we have "dry spells" I wonder whos actually "getting it". Sick I know but whatever. We haven't, um "connected" for like 2 weeks when I was asked "if I felt frisky" after our big conversation. I did initiate that next sunday (like 2 days later) (sad memory i know lol) morning, but like midway into everything after I got mine, he's all Im sorry I wont be able to finish I have to pee.

So then I feel uber guilty, and he 'hasn't felt frisky -according to him' pretty much since then.

I would at the very least like to know that even though we are "working on things" that we aren't going to have to work on our sex life as well.
Honestly, at this point, with all I have posted, is there really anything that would be no ones business?

No girl really talk all you want, it helps you and it helps us too. We all have issues of some sort or another. Men being immatire is quite a common one!...lol Sometimes I wish I could be a man and just check out sometimes. But no boy parts here jsut a big ol' belly...lol

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lol I think it would be very odd to experience being a guy with all the parts.

Although, when it comes down to it, this has all taught me the importance of being a mother. I know (I'm not sure if I posted this in the begining, and honestly I don't feel like checking lol) but I really feel that despite all the incest/molestion that occured while DF was growing up, if his Mom would have been able to be a good Mother, he would be different.

He was first in group home/foster care when he was 4, that is when the initial molestation of his sister came out. He was in that situation until *I think* he was 9 when they were all (4 of them at this point) "given back" to his Mom. At this point *again, I think* is probably when the incest half started. He was back in group homes (foster care never worked for him, he was a very, you aren't my family kind of kid) (his mom couldn't handle 4 kids so she signed them over to the state at this point) from age 11 to 16 when he moved in with his Dad (of all people).

I have spent a lot of time with therepy like issues (my mom is a WHOLE other story, I was her advocate for almost 10 years) and although I have't gone to school, I think I am very good at the psychology stuff. So after my ananlyzing of DF, I have come to these conclusions...

First I do believe he has a sexual addiction, I think for a long time that was the only way for him to feel accepted/get attention/feel bonded to his "family", I think because of everything he has very hyper sexual tendencies. He had such an abandoment/shame problem that instead of resenting the family that caused it, he overactivly sought them out. Family is beyond important to him, and it boggles my mind fairly often. I also think that due to his shame, since this is all out, he probably was so initially scared of me abandoning him/taking his family that he (hopefully unconciously/not intentionally) clung to the "next possibility" -hence Amanda . Because I didn't react to him like he expected (oh your sick, disgusting whatever) it threw him off into uber defensive oh you don't think its sick then I ain't changin mode.

If I had 1 wish, (besised the whole being rich thing lol) I would wish that he knew, 100% in his heart/mind/soul that I am safe. That I will be here for him every step of the way no matter what it is he is having to face or say out loud. I am not going to leave him or look down on him.

So I completly got off subject a bit, my point was that this has taught me to be a better mother, teach my daughters to have high standards without judgment and teach my son to be a "man", respectful, gentlemen kind of man.

lol sorry for the off point stuff

Going back to Eileen's post.-

The kids is really what I worry about the most. I see how certain things he does so me make me feel uncomfortable and I see it happening to my DD too. Of course she just loves her daddy.. but it's interesting to see them interact when he's not getting his way. He's just as childish as she is. I worry so much about how that's going to shape her for the rest of her life. He already trys to buy her and I've tried to explain that just isn't what you do with kids. No matter how old she gets she'll always value your time, acceptance and love way more than any material thing you could get her.

I've tried to use the analogy of picking her up as school everyday.. which of course he wouldn't and couldn't understand because he doesn't do it.. but anyway. I said, have you ever noticed that when she gets a "new toy" or a new outfit.. or whatever that it loses it's novelty pretty quick? May after 3 days.. most of the time even sooner. You could hold it up to her and she wouldn't even care anymore after that short of time, however everysingle day for 3 years when she sees me show up at school, her eyes light up, she yells MOMMIE and comes running to me. Ever single day for 3 years she's excited to see me.. the novlety doesn't wear off.

Plus is hard for me to watch him miss all her little programs and stuff. I know sometimes they aren't that fun.. (what he considers fun) But it means a lot to her. He's always complained that his dad never went to one of his football games never did this or that.. only his mom. So you would think that the imacpat that has had on him would make him want to participate a little bit more. Nope.. not once. He went to the teacher conferece 1 time because I couldn't make it and he "had a thing or two to tell them". The school called me afterward and said, Wow.. we were surprised to see Dad, that's great. But we would still like to speak with you. How sad is that? I can't even verbalize what that made think.. strange.

I'm hoping it will get better when the baby arrives, but I honestly don't have too much hope. I think it will be better for a little while but I'm not counting on long. He is really scared about this baby and never wanted it. It was an oops, but he strongly "blames" me for it since he knew I wanted one. It's going to be hard for me to ever believe he's bonded to his son because of all of the terrible things he's said to me through out my pregnancy. I'm pretty "checked out" at this point and really just holding on for the lease to run up.. (the house is in my name alone and I'm really not trying to screw up ALL my credit) at that point if he's still acting single he can BE single. I'm not going to beg someone with two kids to act like a father.

And as much as it hurts me to admit it, I've come to terms with the fact that truthfully.. he's emotionally abusive. There's no other real explination. I've tried to blame it on upbrings, culture, alcohol.. etc. It just doesn't matter anymore why he does it, just that he does and I'm through with it. Shape up for ship out!

Ok.. that's a lot of rambling.. LOL I don't blame anyone for not reading it..haha

Shay - Well i guess the job does make sense then with some of the younger people being around. That seems like it'll be a hard one to get a way from. --- Oh goodness..DD's gotten into something.. BRB

You make a good point saying it doesn't even matter why he does it just that he does. I am not trying to tell you to do one thing or another I just was thinking since there is so much between the two of you maybe thinking about it from the kids perspective might allow him to look at it in reality verses me against her view. You shouldn't have to beg him to be a father, and you shouldn't have to beg him to be a husband or partner either. Only you can deceid when enough is enough, adn when you are at your limit and he just isn't meeting you on the other side. I can say one thing the moment you settle you get less then you ever settled for. I am so sorry you are going through this right now and you deserve so much more love, attention and support. I sincerely hope whatever happens you are leftr with a peace about it and empowered.

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Thanks! I swear I'm not trying to have a pity party.. Sometimes it just helps to let it out. Plus when you do actually write it out you see it a little more clearly. I'm easily persuaded into the.. it's not so bad arena.

Yeah I am with you on the not so bad arena. I had a b/f that was abusive both emotionaly and physicly when I was a teen and I was owning stock in the not so bad arena. My kiddo at 19 made me realize I coulnd't put up with crap anymore including emotional crap. that is partly why I am so against taking crap from men, don't want to be worshipped but loved and respected is a must or they aren't worth my time. I mean in marriage you have your godo days and bad days and so on but overall disrespect is just wrong. My hubby isn't always my best oprah watching emotional support but he listens and does his best and that is what I care about ya know. He steps up to the plate, may not hit it out of the park all the time and may even strike out but he keeps getting back up there because we meaning the family are all worth it to him.

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Ok so I had a whole post and then I received a server error Ok here we go again lol

My weekend was decent. Nothing fantastic. Michael's buddy, Mikey (yeah I know) asked me on Saturday how Michael and I were doing, I told him we were doing better, seemed to be moving in the right direction. Mikey's response to me was, "are you sure?" I told him as far as I knew and asked him why he'd say that. He said he wasn't sure and then changed the subject.

So Sunday night, we are borderline arguing about the kids lack of eating dinner. I was really uspet (when his buddy says something like that to me, I take it to heart) and crying and Michael looked at me and asked "Where is this coming from?" (that is a nice change even though we were still yelling) and I told him that I thought things were heading in the right direction, but I must be wrong since we can't even talk to each other. I told him what Mikey said, and DF was like, I have no idea why he would say that. Things aren't perfect, but they are progressing, even if it is mini baby steps sometimes. He asked me why I thought we were doing better. I was kind of dumbfounded by this Apparently we view better as 2 different things. Better to him means fixed, better to me means progress. So we re-touched base again. I told him that I don't want to go on day to day and realize that 3 years down the road we haven't moved at all. That it is still only for the kids. He looked at me and said, WE didn't have kids when I met you and I came home then right? Why would that be different now? And you need to stop putting so much into what other people say. (he was in the process of leaving for work) So I guess progress is being made since we were able to communicate without rehashing, or yelling. And I didn't feel worse after he left.

I do have a confession though. Michael has a save box (it is NOT private, locked, covered, hidden etc) and I read a couple of the letters that were in it. I read a total of 4 letters from 3 girls (years ago, like 1999-2002). And I must say I am a little shocked. I say shocked because all the letters sounded the exact same..you are my life, my other half, I love you so much, sorry about the jealousy etc. ALL things that I SAY all the time. It was like reading my own letters. So what makes my words have any impact at all if he has been told the same thing by however many other women? It seems like he picks the insecure kind that he can build up, in return they (I know this is a very strong word) worship him, stroke his ego etc, then he played the jealousy card on them. Its like a horrible pattern he has. I didn't tell him I looked through the box.

I am not a totally insecure person, I do have balls when I need them. I am very jealous though, reading those letters makes me wonder how am I different? I almost feel like I have to BREAK HIS PATTERN, kwim? I don't want to wind up in his box and have some other chic reading thinking, wow how sad.

Mikey's response to me was, "are you sure?"

OMG? That would totally freak me out too! I would have badgerd him until he explained that one.

That sucks about the letters.. but it does show some sort of patten on his end as well. Not just in the type of person he seems to pick, but in the way he must treat them if they feel the need to write these things out. Especially the sorry for the jealosuy part. Seems like you said, he picks somewhat insecure women, but that he also must (on some level) intentionally make them jealous. Like he gets some sort of superior feeling from having some feel like the "need" him. Would also seem to explain some of the sexual addiction. Just that feeling of someone wanting to needing him in any way.

It's amazing how it all gets twisted together and you probably can trace alot of those feeling back to his childhood and feelings of abandonment or otherwise. (I could probably read back and find out, but) Would he consider counsling for himself.. not just as a couple?

I think it goes back to "mommy" issues to be honest. Not just "needing the attention from Mommy" but his view (I am 99% sure of) is that his Mom and his Sis made his family be taken away. He was always aware that he was a far 2ND choice to any of his siblings and I think he has a great deal of resentment that he will never admit to. When he was placed in foster/group care, it was probably the single most devestating thing that ever happened to him. He was never good enough, not even for his own mother.

So he made up for it by excelling at school, parental (him being a dad) involvement and by making insecure people (especially women) feel accepted in a way he never did. Unfortunately, this fed his addiction, and probably got him the attention and acceptance and the feeling of being important from negative sources. Essentially he is the kid that is trouble for the attention. Deep down, a really good kid, just messed up with the "how" part of getting attention.

The biggest difference between me and the girls from his past (besides being a decade older, is that although I am insecure, I am also not desperate and needy. I will only put up with so much and I will be as ready to call it quits as he will. And he knows that I am equally as strong as him with my desire to have a 2 parent household, and a working relationship. I am just as stubborn, although I will more openly admit to my faults.

It was odd, gave me an insite to him I didn't have before. Still no excuse for anything, but you know

OH! I forgot to add ...

He is not ready to go to counseling for himself, he openly said he is scared of facing what happened to him, he is not sure (since this has been part of his life forever) that he wants to change (in the same breath he will say that he hates making me feel the way that he has) He also openly has said that this was something (the calls/reason/addiction) he never wanted me to know because it is something he isn't proud of

He is open to counseling as a couple, but after learning everything that I have, I don't think it would be good for us, actually I think it may backfire because I am sure that the "chat lines" etc will get brought up and I am not going to force him to face those demons.

Sounds like you have a pretty good insight into his workings. It sounds about right. (Even though I don't know him.. YKWIM)

Change is a BI**H.. I can understand not wanting to face those demonds. However it's too bad he won't even give it a chance. It reminds me of what one of my doctors told me one time when I was getting a script for anti-depressants. She said.. Let me know how your feeling in about 6 weeks. It'll probably be better, but don't let yourself just stop there. You've been feeling so bad that anything will feel better.. so don't put a cap on it. You might not even realize that although you now feel good.. you really could feel GREAT.

So, sure it's easier to not face it, not change.. but he'll never know just how good his life could feel and how at peace he might be if he gives it a chance. I think that the individual counsling on his part or maybe both would be needed before too much couples counsling would be helpful. IMO

That brings up an interesting question.. why does counsling have to be so damn expensive? And take up so much time? I guess if you really need to work on something it's worth it but jeeze.. And how do you find the "right" one? Blah..

Yeah no kidding. I don't want to wind up backing him into a corner. I am sure the things he needs to face are very scary, especially if he has a skewed memory of them (which he seems to). His version is much happier than that from his mom/sis.

So I just got a pic mail from Amanda I have decided partly due to my dream last night, coupled with the feeling I got seeing a txt from her that she is evil, but smart enough to **hopefully** stay completely out how she has been for a couple weeks.

I don't have pic mail on my phone, so the first thing I wonder is what it is. I txt her and tell her that, I guess its some stupid friends poem with a monkey on it. So I try to make small talk, ask her how she's been, no answer. I take that as good, but wonder why I got the pic mail? Maybe she just sent it to her contacts list?

So I ask Michael ( I talked to him on my lunch) if he's talked to her, he said no but he was going to call her in a little while . So now I am wondering if I should let it drop or ask him later if he ever talked to her? He was very good at talking her daily and not bothering to tell me. This stresses me out, all my warning flags go shooting up, even when I was trying to be nice and get to know her, my gut always said she was poison. I am PRAYING that she continues to not talk to him. I feel like it is going to put me back to square one if they start talking again.

Great, she just txt me back. Is it wrong to just wish some one didn't exist? She's all Ive been good you? I tell her decent, and say not sure if you are talking to him or not but he said he was going to call you later. So we will see what she says I guess.

How is it possible to convey to Michael (I am pretty sure she knows) that I am not ok with them talking? That my whole entire body sends off horrible feelings?

Ok her txt back says she hasn't been talking to him, but we'll see what happens. WTH does that mean? Damn I freakin hate this

Ok, last freak out (I think) she txt back (after I txt again and told her that I wasn't trying to be a b*tch however I feel very strongly that if they start talking again that it will not only negativly effect my relationship, but also hers (her man hates michael and she hides it that they talk from him). Her txt back is that it isn't being a b*tch, that she understands and "like she said, she doesn't care to talk to him, but he can try calling".

Does anyone care to define that for me? Perhaps bring me back to my almost 28yo self and not the 15yo that I am freaking out like?

[i] Well I dunno about all you have posted since you were blunt and told him off a bit. But dang girl I was very happy to see you stick up for yourself like that Shay. He may have issues and such that is going on and maybe you are dealing with stuff to but all in all you are carrying his child and he shouldn't purposely do things to stress you or make you jealous or any of that. I mean if you are uncomfortable with him doing certain things outta respect he should stop it. You are to be number one priority in his life and being number one should mean something and so should your feelings. That girl though she may be coming off sweet as pie needs to back off and tell him that she is going to do so that she isn't down with being a partial homewrecker (meaning she aint wrecked the whole home but she is making walls that are too high between you and him) its not right that she is ok with being the go to girl and not telling him hey you know I know we had a thing back then but we have both moved on and really you should take this to Shay and talk it over with her not me. I dunno I don't want to get off on too much of a rant or nothing but I really wanted to tell you WTG AND LETTING OUT YOUR FEELINGS AND LETTING HIM HAVE IT THAT ONE DAY you deserve to be heard and your feelings respected and considered.

Joy

AMEN Joy!!!

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